What’s your cosy pursuit?

Welcome to Make Good Things Happen, a podcast for makers in business presented to
you by Angela D’Alton and Renee Baker.
Welcome to the next episode of Make Good Things Happen, the podcast. Joining me is
my co -host Angela D’Alton and I am Renee Baker and together we make good things
happen. We’ve got a few fun things to talk about, starting with one of our faves.
We’ve got to stop saying that because I feel like everything’s a fave, but it’s
true. That’s why we made these segments from scroll to cart.
And this is where we talk about social media and its connection to e -commerce and
website use and user experience and all the bits and pieces that click in between
that. What we have in front of us is a very fun report that has been put together
by PayPal. No, but in serious, as you know, I love the data. I love the numbers.
So any kind of aggregated infographic is my jam. But as I said, we’ve got the
PayPal report in front of us, which is at a 2025 e eCommerce index is what they’ve
called it to read from there directly. It uncovers the challenges Australian
businesses are currently facing, but also gives you insights to learn how you can
take advantage of the latest consumer trends to strengthen your business. But what we
thought we’d do is just pull out a couple of things. And of course, as always,
we’ll link to the full report in our show notes so you can enjoy it as much as I
have. It’s got some very interesting stuff in there, Renee, and honestly, having
watched PayPal through the years develop as an independent platform, once it broke
away, if you’re like, from its parent company eBay, it’s become the kind of in
-between service of a bank and a payment gateway and an e -commerce facilitator and
starting to move into, I guess, more financial operations, but It’s been a large,
essential player in the world of e -commerce as it’s developed. So as a result,
they’ve worked out very well how to collate and express the data that describes
these trends that they identify through all of the massive amounts of data that they
have access to. No doubt. They have actually made the claim that They are the most
preferred and trusted way to pay online in Australia. But I thought that was a
pretty big statement. I think they have established themselves as a trustworthy
gateway. I mean, Touch would never had a major security breach that I’m aware of
anyway, and are very good at informing their user base of what’s happening and
having worked a little bit with PayPal in the past, both during my time at Etsy
and the finder’s keepers, they’ve always been a very professional organization in my
experience. I’d love to know if you feel otherwise. I know a lot of people are not
fans of PayPal, but I think what’s interesting is they are consistent and they have
emerged ahead of a lot of the other payment gateways that I think aren’t as easily
recognized or most importantly, highly trusted. One thing that makers in business like
you, our listeners will find interesting in particular is that 96 % of Australians
now shop online. That’s nearly everybody. Last time I checked. Also part of that
statistic is that more than two in three shop online weekly. That’s 69%.
So The average of almost three purchases per week is 2 .9. There is an average
monthly spend online of $1 ,247.
And as Renee pointed out there, it says PayPal remains the most preferred payment
option selected by almost one in three Australians, which is 32%. I think that’s a
good insight if you don’t have PayPal available. I think it’s probably something that
you should definitely consider why if it’s a choice that you’ve made, especially if
your demographic uses it. And I would suggest given its age, that would include
older Australians. Also, a lot of makers use PayPal because it’s where their money
often sits. Because as you mentioned, it’s sort of half acts like a bit of a bank
because, yes, it’s a payment gateway where you can collect your payments, but your
money can also sit there and you can use it to shop with later. So I know like,
I mean, with us, we get paid a lot in PayPal. Yeah. And I imagine it’s for that
reason, it’s because people have, I guess, what we call PayPal funds sitting there.
It’s our money. But of course, you can also pay with, you can also link your cards
and pay it with credit card through PayPal as well, which is always really handy.
Those key stats that you mentioned were quiet, I guess, not shocking to me, but I
was surprised that it was that high. But one of the other ones that really
surprised me that was high was that nearly 30 % use by now pay later to make a
transaction at least once a month, which seems like a lot to me.
One thing that is noted here is that by now pay later continues to rise in use in
Australia, which the statistic they’ve it is 37 % of Australians used by now pay
later, which is up from 26 % last year. That’s quite a climb. So that also
suggests, I guess, economically, we’re trying to stretch out our money. We’re trying
to make it last longer because the flow in of cash and out, we need to stretch it
out over a longer period of time, I guess, hoping for a future moment of higher
prosperity. How do you feel about that? Obviously, from a data perspective, it’s very
clear that it’s increasing average order values and it’s meaning that people are
spending more money with small businesses, which is something PayPal is celebrating in
the report. But how does it land with you ethically that more people are using
money that they effectively don’t have? Me, not well at all. It makes me very
uncomfortable because the dominant marketing driver for profit behind those by our pay
later businesses. – Some examples of those are after pay. That’s the only one that
comes to mind. I know there’s others. They fell off for it. – Banks now offer it
through their credit card systems. There’s a lot of ways that by now pay later has
infiltrated our payment systems online. I struggle with it a little bit because I
understand that there is a need out there for us to make our money stretch a
little further up in terms of the cash flow. We’re running on a tighter budget.
Being able to pay for larger items in smaller grabs, I get how that works.
When I was a kid, lay -by was the way we did that, and we didn’t get the thing
until we’d paid it off though. So it was about reserving basically the item and
paying it off. Once it was paid off, you could take it home. This is a different
version because someone is also, I guess, profiting in the process of that with
interest and as well as obviously taking a percentage of the actual product cost in
all in all. So it’s being passed on obviously to consumers in some way or another.
I think that my concern about the use of these companies is because they do allow
people who are prone to doing so fall into debt. And even those that are not prone
but are just vulnerable, sometimes find themselves in a difficult position. And that
makes me sad and angry that that ends up happening to some people. It’s obviously
something that a lot of people are using. And I mean, it’s also, I guess, like you
mentioned, lay by, but it’s also not too dissimilar to credit cards as well that
we’ve had around for ever in a long time, which obviously have their own
applications and so on with them as well. But yeah, I think, I don’t know, we’ve
often talked about it from our own business perspective and actually we did go
through the process of trying to secure afterpay as a payment option for our website
a few years ago through our other business Dalton Baker Productions where we provide
one -on -one consulting and mentoring for maker businesses and more established
businesses who who work within the maker space. We did look into that and we were
actually denied. We weren’t suitable candidates. I think that’s probably changed now
though. That was quite a few years ago. But we were still really unsure about how
we felt about it because it was when we would see people using after pay as a
means of, I guess, promoting their products. Like, oh, and we now have after pay. I
can obviously see why anyone would do it. Like I said, the numbers here on the
screen just stack in that favor. Like it’s almost like it’s silly not to do it
from a business perspective but still just, I don’t know, it’s hard. It’s a hard
one and I feel torn on it. Yeah, it’s a tricky one. I guess as a side note in
saying that you and I are always very open to discussing payment options with people
that we work with and feel that we can sort of manage that on a case -by -case
basis and don’t need the third party to take a slice of that. – And we certainly
don’t set up a system has any kind of interest rates or, you know, there’s none of
that involved. It’s really just more about paying it in instalments. I think that’s
for other small businesses who provide services. It is a good idea to be flexible
where you can and to customize your offerings to your clients where it’s possible
because it does provide solutions for some. It is kind of in the interest of our
philosophy of slow business and the keep going in the chip away factor. I think
they all kind of work together. Payment plans work with that too. Anyway, that was
just a tangent from that, but I think still worth thinking about really. Is there
any other stats that jump out? There’s a bit of an abandoned cart feature. For me,
the interesting thing was noting that security is a growing concern for consumers.
So four in five consumers are now more concerned about data security than they were
12 months ago. No doubt in line with the series of breaches, many people have
experienced from hackers and so on in the last couple of years, but also an
increase in Australians experiencing fraud. Four, 91 % of Australians now say they
have personally experienced fraudulent activity, which means somewhere on their payment
system, something’s gone awry. There’s two things about this. One, make sure you’ve
got your encryption set up. Make sure that you’ve got a privacy policy set up. Make
sure you’re alleviating any concerns from potential customers so that you can overcome
their fears with adequate information. The other thing is that sometimes I then look
from a marketing perspective as to why PayPal would mention this as a key insight.
And just before we were talking about how PayPal is a preferred payment option
because people trust them and trust and security obviously go hand in hand.
And particularly when it comes to consumer perception. So I just thought it was
interesting that they highlighted that, saying that customers are really concerned
about security and what do you know, they trust us though. And also on that, on
the infographic version of this data, the security page has a very nice call to
action that PayPal has your back. Oh, there you go. Just one integration. You can
have paying for credit debit, Apple Pay, click here to find out more. Yeah, they’re
actually, like you say, really leveraging that just from a graphic design perspective.
What was interesting about that fact is that I knew it must have been important
because of where it was on the page. It wasn’t highlighted, but it was like a
subheading. That’s the information that actually want me to see. The fact that I
haven’t even scrolled down and that’s the information there only confirms that that’s
a key message they want me to take away from this. Here’s all of this lovely data,
but let’s not waste the opportunity to you reinforcing why our services are essential
to you as a small business owner by adding this information at the end. Honestly,
that’s probably why they’re still around. I’m not knocking it, I’m just noticing it.
The PayPal report is going to be linked in our show notes for those of you who
really do want to dive into it. And if you are a maker in business, you will
definitely want to get your hands on this data. It will allow you to make those
informed decisions that Renae and I love talking about. (upbeat guitar music) This
episode, we’re going to have a Making Good Things Happen segment, which is the
result of us coming across an Instagram post from the Sydney Morning Herald. The
title tile of that Instagram post says, “What grandmacore can teach young Aussies
about stress management?” The caption reads, “Cosy pursuits like the kind of stuff
your grandmother used to do are gaining a new legion of fans as younger generations
discover the mental health benefits of slowing down and switching off.” It is based
on a story by Shona Hendley on the Sydney Morning Herald website. And obviously we
will have a link to that as well if you would like to read all about it. Renee,
I don’t think this is news to us. You brought this to the episode and I mean I
sort of almost, when you first sent it to me, I almost glossed over it because I
thought oh yeah, what? Yeah, obviously. But I think that’s because we’ve grown up
with effectively or at least I have the idea of these craft activities being so
important for our mental health and for our stress relief. I mean really if I think
back, yes it was Frankie magazine that really kind of, I guess, boosted this back
in, I suppose, when were those earlier issues, 2005? I saw recently,
it was 20 -ish years ago that they launched. Yeah, okay. I mean, I was even,
I guess I could take it even further because I learned to crochet. From my mom,
from my auntie, from my grandma, it was something that we would always do when we
were together, particularly in winter. Everyone had a half finished blanket on their
laps and we just went around, ran around the edges of the whole thing. It wasn’t
so much granny squares, but we just kind of do the big, the big blankets. So I
was making those from a really young age and always found those activities really
therapeutic. I guess that was why I clicked right into the Frankie sphere when that
came across my radar. But yeah, I thought this was interesting that it was almost
being pitched as fresh news. We also saw this being talked about a lot through
COVID, which wasn’t, I mean, I suppose that was five years ago now. So, I mean,
it’s probably due a reboot in the news cycle. You’re probably right. It is just
that the news cycle loves to pick this story up every few years or so. And I
think the reason that this is news again is because it’s happening to generation Z.
I’m a generation X. You are a millennial and now That’s the following generation.
I forget that I’m old.
I keep thinking I’m the emerging generation. Yeah. I hate to break it to you.
You are not anymore. What we need to remember about this generation in particular is
they have not been without a phone in their hands probably since they were very
young. The reason I think this has come up again is because it’s happening to
generations dead specifically. And that is the generation that has not been without
their phones kind of since they were probably very small. I think they were the
first generations to experience phones as children before we kind of knew what they
did to them. And so now as a result, they are looking for the slow analogue life
and turning to gentle crafts I think that can provide them with some peace and
quiet. – Makes sense when you say it like that, of course. Just, I mean, bringing
this to you, obviously listener is that it’s worth if you’ve got anything remotely
crafty again. Now’s the time to roll on into this messaging and highlight it.

When we talk about Things that we used to do or projects we’ve worked on our
portfolio of work and the things that we learned along the way We call this segment
making history and In this episode, we’re going to talk about twin set which had
the tagline quirky offbeat vintage fashion. I mean that was very early on in our
relationship that we it’s our original Original collaboration collaboration. The very
first partnership that we had, we decided to start a business that provided us with
a means to elevate vintage or secondhand or used clothing by styling it up and
putting it in good photos, putting it on cute people, using the strength of those
images to show to Ceri buying new clothes was.
It was kind of when our original mission was to, by using fashions, terms, show
fashion, that it doesn’t have to be new or fast. And we did that a long time ago.

Well, that’s what I was actually just trying to think and probably should have,
again, researched the dates before we started recording. But I guess it’s important
to point out and probably less relevant than the number, or more relevant than the
number, I should say, was this is the era, and you mentioned eBay earlier, as much
as there was this high turnover of things being sold, and in some cases for really
high prices. We often refer back to the days of the wire coat hanger on the back
of the door with the flash photography, because that’s where we used to see those
photos on eBay by including wire coat hanger hanging on the back of the door.
That’s all you had to do. And I guess we refer to that a lot now because we say
go on other days where you could get away with selling something. And I guess we
certainly weren’t the first to do this at the time. There were some key people. I
think there was another seller online who had a shop called Gary Pepper Vintage who
is now a high -end fashion model, the founder of that business. We knew about
selling online. You already had set up the Leeloo store, the online store. We haven’t
talked about Leeloo yet, but we will. Angela founded and supported and showcased
Australian, I think you use the word indie, but it was independent art and design,
effectively. You already understood how the mechanisms of selling online, what was
required and even to the extent of setting up an online store and all of that. We
didn’t but from, you know, being able to take advantage of the traffic that they
had on the site. Yeah, I guess, like you say, what we wanted to try was this
really almost like over the top editorial style photography where the whole thing was
done, the hair, the makeup, the models, the lighting, the magic, I suppose, of a
beautiful photo shoot where you’ve got a collaboration of so many different people
there. We had a strong sense of what we wanted it to look like. We both gave it
our own kind of style, I guess. You were obviously instrumental in the branding,
the logo, the website design, which was done on Big Cartel. It was one of those
very early DIY website stores that back in the day,
and we had that lovely kind of colour tone. And it was early days of social media.
I think it might have been Facebook and Twitter. So at one stage we were looking
for a photographer because we had, like I said, these grand ideas to have these
beautiful photo shoots and you posted a call out on Twitter. I did.
I did. It was at the time Osher Günsburg was doing a photography project that he
was publishing through Twitter. Flickr. Anyway, Flickr And he would link to it on
his Twitter. Yeah. Every day it was like a photo a day for a year, I believe. For
those of you who aren’t aware, Osher Günsburg is an incredibly good photographer and
by that I just mean artistically, technically, he’s got a very good eye for a good
photo. And we’d both been watching this project unfold,
which was why I knew he was a photographer and I actually tweeted him directly
saying, “Would you like to work with us on one of our photo shoots?” And he said,
“Yes.” And that didn’t. That shocked me. Next thing you know, we were planning a
photo shoot at a friend of mine’s house in Bondi with Osha Ginsburg, who at the
time was still working on Australian Idol. And so, yeah, it was, I mean,
that was one of many people that we collaborated with. We also collaborated with
Jessica Klingelfuss, who is an incredibly talented photographer.
Vanessa Collins, who is an incredibly talented makeup artist still working to this
day, still producing beautiful work, creates a really flawless, natural look with her
makeup and always impresses me with her editorial work and we were just privileged
enough to work with her on a shoot or two maybe. My memory’s not very good.
We also worked with Amelia Axton and your cousin Bonnie? Yeah.
She then at the time, but still does have a very successful Instagram account,
Oz Beauty Expert and also a makeup label, Basics by B, which is, Yeah, I’m just in
awe watching her grow that business as she’s been doing over the last few years. In
short, we’ve had the pleasure of working with so many awesome people who are still
doing awesome things. We also had some other models that we worked with as well,
which was Caitlyn Melling and Jordan Clark, who our creative friend were happy to
get involved, and they also did a fantastic job in the images as well. – Luke as
well, Luke Russell. And in fact, it was during that photo shoot that we produced
the image. You were the model, I was the stylist. Jess Klingelfuss was the
photographer. Vanessa Collins was the makeup artist for your cover on Peppermint
Magazine, which I believe was issue five. – Yes, it was issue five. – Still gorgeous
to this day. And something that I think I’ll always be really proud of. I think
the best part of you being on that cover was just walking around the news agents.
Everywhere I went, you were there. It was weird and awesome. We also were featured
in Slow Magazine, which was the, I think it’s not the same as Slow Magazine that
is around now. It was the original one that was about slow living. We also styled
a few other photo shoots using twin set products. I think we did one at Reverse
Garbage. That was also on Peppermint. We have a love for fashion that goes way
back, but in particular vintage and retro. I mean, we’ve both been into it for a
while. And whilst it sounds like I’m going, I like them when they were still when
they weren’t popular. It was still popular back then. It’s always been popular. I’m
trying to think of what this story of hearing about, I guess our history with this
particular brand and label. One of the things I guess that does stand out to me a
lot and I have used this example before is we talked about these photo shoots and
how we really wanted to create something more than just the wire coat hanger on the
back of the door. The reason that we wanted to do that is because we wanted to be
able to sell these products at a price point that were really quite premium. And
the reason that this stands out to me is because I remember We had a gray woolen
coat that I think you’d sourced somewhere. Both Angela and I would source this
clothing. Predominantly, we would go to different op shops and also to, I guess,
second hand vintage clothing stores and find key pieces that we kind of collected
and built up over time. And so that was where we got a lot of the items from.
Some of the things that we sourced were actually also from our family. From our
family because both of us come from families that give a shoot about fashion. Well,
not only, yeah, give a shoot about fashion, but also like to collect things. We had
some items available to us as well. It was our example of saying an image can sell
an item, showing someone what something can be or showing someone the potential of
something can sell a And if you can put value into that feeling and that aspiration
that you’re giving your customers to think about, then they will pay for it, is
what I’m trying to say. Like it was a good example of us taking an item that cost
very little to use a craft or use photography and fashion to show the value of
this particular item and show the imagination that is required behind it. Sometimes
that’s part of product photography is saying this is how you can use this piece.
And that’s what we were doing. We launched in collections and we would build up a
little bit of hype and we created a digital lookbook for each of these collections,
which was, you know, still a lot of work. And I think again, when you talk about,
I don’t know where we would actually were promoting it, I guess it was just on
Twitter and Facebook and I think maybe an email list that we built through Lelu.

We did have some print advertising. We had a little bit, we bought a few small
ads in Street Press and Frankie and obviously we’re in Peppermint, but we also had
that little bit of PR here and there and also the Lelu connection did work for us
as well. And yeah, but it was good fun. – Yeah, just to wrap it up, we had, I
just remember this particular collection where we had this gray coat and that
collection when we launched we almost sold out completely and some of the pieces
like I think the coat was over $300. We had dresses for over $100 and we’re
talking vintage clothing that at the time people were really only spending $20 or
$30 on and again it just it really blew our mind because I mean it makes it sound
like we were making a heap of money off it. We weren’t really, but it was really
just a project that self sustained in a way. We were fortunate enough to work with
people who were emerging or willing to give us their time because they enjoyed being
in that process, in that creative room and it’s a day and it’s a day of
concentrated work and fun. When you’re younger, things are much more attractive and
easy to do. I think we had a good time and that’s the main thing. We’ll share
some of the photos if we can find them. I think they still float around online
somewhere.
This week I have been watching the same show as you’ve been watching which has just
been released season two recently on Netflix, Survival of the Thickest.
Yeah, which I didn’t even realise you were watching it. I had it recommended through
a friend of mine and she sent it to me thinking it would be something I would
like and she was right. And then I sent it to you sort of saying, have you seen
this? And sort of somewhere along the line because we were probably having four
conversations at once. I didn’t get your answer. And then, yeah, you’ve now confirmed
that you actually were watching it. So have you been watching it this week? – Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I’ve been watching it in the last seven days. I think I’ve watched four
episodes maybe? Sorry, I’ve watched four episodes from season one. I haven’t actually
delved into season two yet. I came across Michelle Buteau, the star and writer on
probably general show runner of this particular show. And I first was introduced to
her through Babes, which was the movie that she did with Ilana from Broad City,
who wrote that movie. So Michelle Buteau is actually a stand -up in as I understand
it. It is, I don’t know, I just really love it. It’s got so many components to it
that I enjoy. I really like her character. I think she’s charming. I like the way
she communicates. She’s really honest and assertive about it, really clear.
I don’t know. I just find her a very appealing person to watch on television, but
I also really like her character. And there’s some good characters in there too. I
think it’s a cool show. Yeah, it’s on Netflix and it’s quick episodes if that’s
what you’re into. I think, yeah, I agree. I think it’s a good cast and it’s easy
to watch and it’s a good story. So yeah, that was just a happy coincidence that we
were both watching the same show this week and one that we’ll gladly recommend to
you if you like comedy that’s topical, relevant. About fashion. – Oh yeah,
let’s not forget if it ties in beautifully to our fashion festival this week.

Yeah, thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Make Good Things
Happen, the podcast for makers in business. We look forward to talking to you again
soon. Don’t forget to hit us up on the website, makegoodthingshappen .com .au /podcast
or there’s a link on the homepage. If you ever have any suggestions for subjects or
things that you’d like to hear our takes on, please email us through the website.
We love taking suggestions. We’ll see you soon with our next episode.
See you soon, Renee. Bye. Thanks for listening to Make Good Things Happen. If you
enjoyed this episode, why not write a review or share it with a friend? For show
notes and more, head to mgth .com .au. This has been a D’Alton Baker Production.

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